You know what guys, let’s stop this back and forth nonsense and get back on topic if you all want to continue with it that is.

What jason is referring to that he’d like to discuss is somewhat on topic, below is what PhilC had to say

The spec sites are just like CHINESE TOY FACTORIES - as they push to the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR then obviously quality, safety and value will suffer. The real danger is that CEO at Mom & Pop Company will think that this is what REAL DESIGNERS ARE LIKE. The only solution is:
1. Unionize: gather as much good designers together (outside of the bullshit spec site clientele to provide a professional counterweight to their fraudulent practices.

2. STANDARDIZE. Document a min standard of Behaviour (Turn around time, responsiveness, revisions , DISPUTE RESOLUTION etc. ALL designers that associate with your union legally swear to stand by those quality levels.

3. Document and expose their abuses ( Specwatch claims to be doing this, but 80% of their output is illeterate ranting “fire bad! Trog no like!”

I think there was something like this, or a group of designers had started something like this out, it can be found over at www.designerfreaks.com

While I think people got bored of it fast and dropped the idea, I felt it had potential, only they kind of took it a little too far in my opinion and over thought what it would take to get something like that going.

I don’t have too much to say that hasn’t already been said by my friend Sneh. After reading over the “discussion” there really was no bashing of anyone on her part, but boy did someone, (no naming names) not hesitate to begin to tear HER a new asshole? Felt a bit uncalled for! Seems she was trying to have a level headed discussion, whether it was to agree or disagree, it was still tasteful, unlike the sit oboo sit comment that was directed at her.

Ok, so Brandstack hasn’t developed the “perfect” business model yet, but Wes is in the midst of implementing changes that have yet to come. In terms of rip offs; hell, I’ve seen designs on logopond being ripped by fellow “logoponders” and placed on portfolios right there on logopond. Jared, even you know it’s true, the guy I’m talking about, his whole logopond portfolio is nothing but rip offs!Doesn’t that show that “rip-offs” can happen anywhere; on spec work sites, inspiration sites, AND Brandstack. You know what? I agree that the 15% should come from the buyer instead of the designer, but if these are designs that would otherwise just sit on our hard drives….who the heck cares? So, ridicule me, patronize me, or whatever you want to do, I’m only stating my opinion, which was, if I remember correctly, the point of this whole post, was it not?

Well, I have to say I can’t take anything serious that is written so badly. Sorry Toni. The language and phrasing are more often then not infantile. However, I did read it. No, I do not think Brandstack is evil or doing anything wrong to designers. I have no issues with their taking 15% or advertising to designers only. Crowdsourcing sites take their money from the businesses and individuals who sign up for a contest. To me there is no difference. All designers have to do is add 15% to their selling price and they lose nothing. As for the accusations about approving designs only from featured designers, I have seen no solid evidence of it. There is no solid evidence for most of those sort of accusations. I do agree that the logos currently being approved are mostly terrible (over-inspired or not). Yes, that bothers me. But I don’t expect they’ll only approve logos I like. And such things will get thru no matter how good the supervision (why does Brandstack have to improve their quality control but crowdsourcing sites do not?). However, no matter how strict they are, it is entirely subjective in the end. Sure, they could do more research, but I can understand them letting the professions who use their site do some of the heavy lifting. Brandstack is fated to have a revolving door of designers. That is just the nature of the business they put themselves in. Like Conway said, his marketing changed. 1981 took his down because he can sell his logos easier through his own website. No, I don’t see Brandstack as evil in any way. I do however have issues with crowdsourcing sites. I’m pretty sure Toni has never been forced to work for spec to - fingers crossed - make a buck because if he had he may understand why so many of us hate it (including designers he says he highly respects). Toni has the right to his opinion, no argument there. But so do we all.

Earlier, I had decided to steer clear of being a part of this hare brained articulation…the reason being it wasn’t worthy of my time or attention.

Now since all the Goldraths and Koetlers of the world have assembled here to opine on business models and marketing strategies…being a marketing consultant i could help but throw my two cents here…

ok…now let’s look at toni, moni, phoney’s points about why this business model fails…

“Give those same designers more competition by purchasing a $500/mo designer-targeted ad on Logopond and countless other inspiration sites, thus increasing our user base and our extraordinary number of low-quality, rip-off designs!”
I say - what the fuck is wrong with that?
From a designers point of view : Are we all such pussies to shy away from competition? Hell no…If i have the skills i can sell my work amidst any number of competition…The more the merrier…being an ostrich with the head and ass shoved deep in the sand and chanting “I’m the Best MoFo in town” might work for the author…real designers prefer healthy competition…

From Brandstack’s point of view: Wouldn’t any business want to stock enough products for it to start bringing in a customer? What’s wrong with that approach? Which one of you go to a store which just has ten brands of soaps and 5 brands of shampoo? We all go shop in places where there’s variety in choice… so how does any businessman go about it?? He brings different brands/products/services to be stacked in his shelf - so when a client walks in he gets impressed by the variety of choices available to pick and choose from…
Does our self proclaimed Marketing Guru know anything about Word of Mouth Advertising? (In case you’re wondering It is a very effective marketing strategy to get more business -if a client gets lots of choices to pick from and the if service is equally good goes back a happy customer and in the process spreads the word to his friends and family about his great find…In marketing we describe this phenomenon as First Mover Syndrome)
And I don’t even want to comment on the “extraordinary number of low-quality, rip-off designs!” part…Just go check the critique section in brandstack to see the truly low quality of designs that don’t make the cut…

“Step 2:  Develop pointless and ridiculous add-ons to my already terrible User Interface, such as an AJAX chat room that doesn’t even work!”
This point is laughable to say the least…The majority find the UI very appealing - including the clients with whom I’ve personally interacted with and posed this very question about UI with them and they’ve responded positively…
And really Toni - the comment about chat room is the best you can come up with?? Doesn’t every website have a couple of those useless sections?? Just there for decoration? LMFAO!

“Step 3:  We’re going to encourage our users to give us free ad space on their portfolio sites and spam their twitter followers with shitty Brandstack spam!”
From a designer’s point of view : Nobody depends on Brandstack for their bread and butter - we are a group of professional designers - who have a regular flow of direct clientele.
With our regular clients - we have a set route/path to follow - we get clear briefs on what to do and how to do - thus limits our creativity considerably…So when we do cook up a logo for Brandstack it becomes a refreshing exercise where we get to flex our creative muscles and see how far it gets us…and yes most of the time - the results are surprisingly good…thus we bloat about it on twitter and other social networking places…Anything wrong with that?? Just yesterday - i was bombarded with RTs of this asswipe article - and the author so cockily tweeted the blog link accompanied with a single word: “RT” - as if we minions are duty bound to spread the word of this messiah of design community…
From Brandstack’s point of view : Well isn’t it obvious? Is having their brand talked about their fault? Till date we haven’t been told by anyone to do so…we are doing it out of our own free will. This place nurtures our creativity and hell if we don’t tom-tom about it! If anyone had a problem with us tweeting of our hard work and the results it produced – it’s their prerogative to unfollow us :) One doesn’t need to be a genius to understand that…on the other hand our work gets RTed the most! Not just by our fellow designers but also any random follower who like the work we do! Is there anything wrong with that??
“Hire incompetent douchebags like Robert McGuire who alienate their own design community!”
Far as i know - Robert Mcguire has received a very warm welcome from the majority of the design community that uses brandstack on a daily basis…Though this latest revelation by Jared is quite a shocker and I am completely saddened by this approach from MD…But hey we’ve seen designers committing worse crimes and now we are gonna sit and tear Brandstack a new one because of this?? Far as I’m concerned MD is quite a talented designer and a good critique…and he makes sure he posts his opinions/suggestions on every brand that’s posted at Brandstack…And far as the quality control goes for most part he’s doing a great job…just go take a gander at the critique section to see what kind of logos he deals with on a daily basis! And the grapevine is that they are working on a better and more efficient quality control system that’s not being manned by a single person…so let’s cut them a little slack shall we?? In Toni’s own words - ” they’re huge, not even 2years old and perfecting the service just takes time, not that I know of a bullet proof service online anyway” oh I forgot to mention that comment was about crowdspring and not Brandstack! A man who is so generous with the issues there, spewing so much venom at Brandstack shows that he has some deep rooted problems that needs some serious counseling sessions ;)

So on a whole the article and the author knew apeshit about running a business…just wanted his fifteen seconds of fame…not that uncommon in a terrain like this when every asshole comes with an opinion…oh that includes me too! Not claiming that I’m above any of this!
Half baked ideologies can only go so far! T - dude I love your style and attitude mate…but when you start trying to come off as this intelligent marketing guru - you end up looking like a retard that doesn’t know the difference between his ass and mouth!
Peace out!

John, your message was too long for me to bother reading, sorry :P

(on a more serious note, i skimmed it, though sadly found nothing worth commenting on but the fact that it was a pretty useless comment, a failed attempt at being smart and funny…ouch, better luck next time buddy)

Jenny, while there are people who rip off logos on Logopond… on Logopond, they aren’t out to sell them.  That’s the problem.  Rippers on cS and BS are out to sell someone elses’ work.

haha! i can understand buddy…too late in the night to exercise your already depleting supply of graycells…wouldn’t have expected anything better from you even otherwise…i understand you completely :P

when a bully gets bullied he likes to pretend that it never happened… Been there done that brother! I really didnt expect you to read the whole thing anyways…was just aiming at more evolved souls…

I should have given it a “Rated for Mature Audience” tag right at the beginning…my bad…

John, please stay on topic and refrain from insulting other members commenting here.

Same goes for everyone else, please just stick to the topic at hand.

sure thing jason! it was all in good jest :)

btw Jason it might help to see the proof you had on Tabitha’s so called plagiarism…when you throw a statement like that without proof to back it up right away…that might sound like insulting other members…

me and Toni know each other for quite sometime and are just two clowns getting kick out of all this buffoonery…neither of us are taking this personally…so peace mate!

One of the things that KILLS all of you is what a fractured, IMMATURE bunch you are - you are not ALL or MOST designers but you have a disproportionately louder   voice with your excessive blogging and tweeting and retweeting trumpeting the same lame bullshit arguments over and over, louder and louder!!!

For one, you cry “RIP OFF” and “YOU STOLE MY LOGO/IDEA/CONCEPT/Mangina” WAAAAAAAY to often, and over the merest similarities - especially when the ‘perpetrator’ is not one of your ‘close circle of masturbation friends’ then, it’s a ‘cool, you got a great idea that shares my original thought too!’
This diminishes your standing, authority and credibility.
As for ‘spec’ sites? UNIONIZE!! there is value to be had (for the customer) from going to a spec site. There is also a BIG downside to them as well: Crappy work, legal issues, wasted time looking at a dozen tossed together and stolen markups NONE OF WHICH CHOSE TO ASK THE REAL QUESTIONS NECESSARY TO CREATE A WINNING PRODUCT - for much of the market, it dont matter, they WANT to rip off somebody else, run their business and make a buck until they get a Cease and Desist or look “just like every other Pizza Place” but its all EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION - STANDARDS STANDARDS STANDARDS - QUALITY QUALITY QUALITY - CERTAINTY (which goes to standards - people are CERTAIN of what they’ll get when they deal with you) THAT is what businesses want! Provide those four things and they’ll be beating a path to your door (vs beating your door down )

SHORT VERSION:
Important topic, Crappy article, Designers need to stop bitching like pussies and unite